turtledovefandomcom-20200216-history
Category talk:Reptiles
This category consisted of five mythological and/or fantasy creatures such as dragons and the like. None of them were real-life lizards. Just plain stupid! ML4E (talk) 16:48, May 3, 2018 (UTC) This was deleted once already, as above. Recreated without discussion and without justification. ML4E (talk) 20:08, April 25, 2019 (UTC) :Per-Ma-Ban! Per-Ma-Ban! Per-Ma-Ban! Turtle Fan (talk) 21:54, April 25, 2019 (UTC) ::I'm at the end of my tether, myself. TR (talk) 02:03, April 26, 2019 (UTC) :::I hope I've added enough to keep it afloat.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 09:57, April 26, 2019 (UTC) ::::You haven't. :::::Not even close. TR (talk) 04:43, April 27, 2019 (UTC) ::::::Nope. You also added a couple of individuals to what is supposed to be a species / creature type category. Those I removed. Now for the rest and deletion. ML4E (talk) 16:52, April 27, 2019 (UTC) ::::Come on guys, let's just do it and be done with this fool at long last. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:36, April 27, 2019 (UTC) :::::It's time. TR (talk) 04:43, April 27, 2019 (UTC) ::::::It would be a shame for me to depart before unloading all this valuable character info I have collected for Detina.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 06:40, April 27, 2019 (UTC) :::::::The first time you've ever defended yourself. I've often wondered if you're even aware of the fact that we discuss taking action against you. :::::::And the fact that we discuss it should have told you something. We act by consensus here. We don't go off half-cocked. If I did you'd have been gone ages ago. The temptation to do so has been overwhelming. But I respect the culture of consensus developed here, as does everyone except you. (And the long-departed Uskok, I suppose. And the hit-and-run spammers.) :::::::As for the WBtP stuff you're adding: Yes, some of it is worthwhile. Some of your contributions have always been. But so many have not. And you've always ignored our gentle reminders to separate the rough from the smooth. You've had four years to learn your lesson, and you've steadfastly refused. We just can't take anymore. :::::::I've voted yes. TR has voted yes. ML4E hasn't officially voted yes, but he hasn't tried to save you, and from the tone of the comments he's directed at you he seems as much at his wit's end as we are. JCC's proposed promotion has not yet taken effect, so he need not be consulted. :::::::As TR says--it's time. Goodbye, Jonathan. Turtle Fan (talk) 17:09, April 27, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::A belated yes from me too. I was going through history first to see what value Jonathan was adding. The minor character additions are complete but for the more substantial figures little more than stubs. So while useful, I wouldn't say valuable. The downside of not wishing to discuss e.g. creation of sub-cats outweighs this, I'm afraid. So I was going to pull the trigger but see TF did it first. ML4E (talk) 19:32, April 27, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::I really should have waited till you had replied in the affirmative. Sorry about that. I guess I just wanted to have it done with. It's not pleasant to do such things, and I didn't want it to drag on. And paradoxically, I'll admit my trigger finger was itchy, but I guess I didn't need to be the one to pull it. ::::::::::Not a problem. ML4E (talk) 17:52, April 28, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::Speaking of his history, one interesting thing I noticed when I clicked on his profile page one last time was that he'd made on the order of 75,000 edits on this Wiki in not quite four years--a little under three times as many as I've made in a little over three times as long. Now I'm not going to claim that all of mine have been worth their weight in gold (or maybe I will, since they weigh nothing) but I don't think it's overly self-indulgent to point out the difference between quality and quantity right here. Turtle Fan (talk) 00:57, April 28, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::A lot of Jonathan's edits were minor things like changing "20th century births" to a particular decade or changing "death from natural causes" to the particular sub-cat like "heart attack" or whatever. Minor stuff that really had little relevance to Turtledove's work but voluminous given the number of characters especially minor ones. ML4E (talk) 17:52, April 28, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::For the sake of comparison, ML4E has made almost 39,000 edits in twelve years, and TR has broken 110,000 in thirteen. So quality and quantity can certainly exist side by side. Turtle Fan (talk) 01:01, April 28, 2019 (UTC) J It sounds like Jonathan was actually in the process of making a useful a useful TWBTP encyclopedia before you nipped it in the bud because of this small matter about reptiles. I think I'll try stalking him and see if I can persuade him to turn over any notes he made about TWBTP. Since I seem to be the only one here who never got involved in his conflicts, he might be more amenable to my entreaties, even if he turns out to be an otherwise vindictive sort. But going over the archives, it looks like his heart is in the right place. He doesn't seem to be malicious, and it looks like he was actually trying to improve the wiki, even if it was in his own blithering, incompetent Inspector Clouseau manner.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 19:37, May 1, 2019 (UTC) :It wasn't "this small manner about reptiles," it was four years of constantly disregarding every convention of how this wiki is run, directly defying the site administrators, rendering content useless to satisfy some personal whim, muddying the categorization system to the point that it no longer served its purpose, and rfusing even to defend his actions. He didn't add much of value to offset these problems. We don't want him back and we don't want whatever he was planning to do. If you are in fact not him, don't have any contact with him--at least, not for the purpose of continuing his work here. Turtle Fan (talk) 21:06, May 1, 2019 (UTC) :Unless you have read the novel(s) any notes Jonathan may have would be meaningless to you. The postings he did make were complete for minor characters but little more than stubs for those big enough to warrant their individual articles. Read a novel and you can create Minor Char sub-sections as you go and in your own words without notes. Otherwise you are merely posting on behalf of Jonathan which is unacceptable. ML4E (talk) 22:17, May 2, 2019 (UTC) ::I have obtained copies of the novels on-hand, and Jonathan has sent a list of page numbers connected to character and place names. Apparently those are to index where the relevant information on a certain character may be found.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:40, May 3, 2019 (UTC) :::If you are doing your own work from the novels then fine. Wait for Turtle Fan and/or TR to comment first though. ML4E (talk) 20:27, May 3, 2019 (UTC) ::::Describe in detail just what it is you're planning here or in a user blog or something like that first. If I'd wanted to continue spot-checking dozens of dubious articles for quality, I never would have banned Jonathan. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:32, May 4, 2019 (UTC)